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WBC to picket Mel White, Arun Gandhi & so-called Soulforce Mass Arrest scam at UM General Conference,  Cleveland, May 9


From: Jeff Graham graham@vci.net
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 10:41 PM
Subject: WBC to picket Mel White, Arun Gandhi

Dear John,

I have no problem with WBC's theology. I have a BIG problem with their language. Not only is it incendiary, it is obscene.

I have no problem with your linking to information on WBC's website. As you state, their plans for GC are UM related news. But I do applaud you for cleaning up the language they use in the headline. Perhaps even a warning might be in order for those who are sensitive. Taking a stand does not mean they have to intentionally offensive. Such language serves no good purpose.

Rev. Jeff Graham Kentucky


From: revdad@earthlink.net
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:36 PM
Subject: WBC To Picket Mel White

Dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ;

Grace and peace to you from God our Father, through Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

I am enormously disappointed and greatly confused! No matter where one may find one's self in the debate over homosexuality, I fail to understand how a "Christian" organization can tie itself to a person of such hatred as Mr. Phelps!

I have forced myself to travel to his web site (via the Unofficial Confessing Movement site) only to be sorrowfully sickened in heart and spirit. I can discover no logical nor legitimate reason for a site professing the love of God (UCM) relating itself to a site of pure and unadulterated hate.

Until this point I was visiting the UCM site to receive information and education pertaining to General Conference 2000. I'm not sure I can continue to do so, nor am I sure I can recommend the UCM site to my parishioners.

I hope in the near future those responsible for posting links will seriously consider their impact on spreading the "good" news of the gospel of Christ Jesus.

In God's service,
Rev. Scott R. McCormick
( revdad@earthlink.net )


Truth never rides to freedom in a limo.
Truth moves forward with painful steps through fear,
suffering, hate, rejection, misunderstanding, bashing,
and everything that lies can devise to discredit and
halt its progress.
If you travel with truth, you have chosen the narrow way,
and few there be that find it.
Jesus found the way of truth and walked therein.
Jesus gives only one clear order:
"Follow me and love one another as I have love you."
That's not hard to grasp.
It just takes all you are and have to do it.

From the Editor: It is UM related news.  WBC and Mel White are going to be at General Conference.  I also have a link to Mel White's organization as well.

Love in Christ,

John OSMA<><
Rev. John Warrener, MDiv., MBA
Palmyra Road United Methodist Church
1600 Palmyra Road
Albany, GA  31701
jwarrene@ucmpage.org

Unofficial Confessing Movement Page
http://ucmpage.org
><>


From: Wesley Putnam <wputnam@wesleyputnam.org>
To: John Warrener <jwarrene@surfsouth.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: recent articles UCM page.

John,

I fear you do our cause no good when you publish trash from the "godhatesfags" web site.  It is offensive, crude, and infuriating.  I know you are running an "unofficial page".  But, I think people will paint us with the same brush as they do him and his organization.

That's just my opinion.

Wesley


From: U.M. Cornet <umcornet@hotmail.com>
To: <UMCalledOut@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 8:53 AM

Subject: [CALLED OUT] A UM Link to Fred Phelps' Hate Site

CALLED OUT INFORMATION SERVICE

Last week, we sent you a Soulforce News Alert, Thursday, April 20, 2000, GANDHI'S GRANDSON, CIVIL RIGHTS HEROES TO LEAD MAY 10 MARCH FOR GLBT-RIGHTS. You can find the article in our archives at http://www.egroups.com/messages/UMCalledOut/ or at http://www.soulforce.org/clevelandmarch.html  

Fred Phelps has posted a web page which  is a flyer about this event and Mel White. The unofficial Confessing Movement (United Methodist) news web page links to this article at http://ucmpage.org/news_page.html .

Scroll down to the page to find: "WBC to picket f-- whoremonger Mel White, Arun Gandhi & so-called Soulforce Mass Arrest scam, Cleveland, May 9 (godhates---s.com) - April 22, 2000.  The link goes to a page which most Christians, including most Evangelicals, will find very offensive both in terms of language used and interpretation of the Holy Bible.

The unofficial CM web page is owned by John Warrener, United Methodist clergy.  On a volunteer basis, he also does the following web sites in terms of the page design and mark up:

The Confessing Movement within the United Methodist Church
Lifewatch United Methodist (pro-life) Newsletter
Josiah Journal Publication of United Methodist Renewal Generation
UMAction Briefs - Newsletter
South Georgia Relief Association
(See bottom of the page: http://ucmpage.org/jwarrene/ )


From: Rodney J. Buchanan <>
To: <ucmpage@ucmpage.org>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: UnOfficial CM

John,

PLEASE PLEASE remove the words "fag" and "whoremonger" from the website.  Those are the kinds of things that those who oppose us are looking for and will use, even though it is a quote.

Rod Buchanan

From the Editor:

I took your advice regarding the WBC headline.

Love in Christ,

John OSMA<><
Rev. John Warrener, MDiv., MBA
Palmyra Road United Methodist Church
1600 Palmyra Road
Albany, GA  31701
jwarrene@ucmpage.org

Unofficial Confessing Movement Page
http://ucmpage.org
><>


From: <Kasbooth@aol.com>
To: <ucmpage@ucmpage.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 9:27 PM
Subject: UnOfficial%20CM

John ... this article "WBC to picket fag whoremonger Mel White, Arun Gandhi & so-called Soulforce Mass Arrest scam, Cleveland, May 9" - is a blot on the UCM. It's unworthy of you to publish it and whoever wrote it should be ashamed. Do we really need to get this ugly and unloving?

Karen Booth


From: <Churchman1@aol.com>
To: <ucmpage@ucmpage.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 10:35 AM

Subject: Please%20Add%20the%20Headline%20You%20Are%20Commenting%20On

Dear Editor,

I am deeply concerned that you would allow communication of   "godhatesfags.com/whitegandhi e-mail.

I am against everything that Mr. White does in the casuse for homosexuals rights, but I believe this communication on your webpage lowers the standard of the CM efforts to attact this sinful front. The language used in this communication was base and not something I would like my children or grandchildren to read.

I think you need to censor a little closer what you send out to the CM movement.

Dick West
Friend and Supporter of CM


From: John Warrener <jwarrene@surfsouth.com>
To: Wesley Putnam <wputnam@wesleyputnam.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: recent articles UCM page.

Dear Wesley and others,

I believe that Mel White does more damage to the eternal souls of the lost than WBC.   Yet, there is no protest of harming the cause when I link to his website.  I report all event related to the UMC.  I am not intimidated by the enemy's "brush" and neither should our cause.  If it does, then they control us through intimidation.  Since when does the enemy's (Satan and those under his influence) rhetoric and lies guide our actions?

Have you taken the time to read all that is published on the godhatesfags website before you formed your opinion or have you let the WBC's critics define their theology of ministry? If you have not taken the time, then you cannot form a fair and just opinion, but have let the critics define it. Please, take the time to read his website, especially his FAQ page and form your own opinion based upon a fair reading of WBC.  WBC is not the enemy, White and those others, including our Bishops, leading others astray are the enemies of God.  No one protests my reporting their words.

I do not support WBC but I have done my homework and let them speak for themselves and no longer depend upon the rhetoric of the enemies of God to form my opinion.  If we are to be men of integrity, even the bizarre ministry of Phelps and his church deserves a fair examination before we cast stones at those who may be our brothers.

I have yet to speak to an evangelical who has criticized me for reporting WBC activity as it directly relates to the UMC that has taken the time to read how WBC justifies and defines their ministry.  We are guilty of the same thing we object to, being called fomenters of hate, bigots, homophobes, unloving and other unjust titles, when we do the same to WBC.  Ira Gallaway was objecting to the unfair treatment of evangelicals in the latest from the Confessing Movement.  If we have not taken the time to read the justification for WBC's ministry before we start casting the same stones cast at us, then, we are no better than they.  God help us for that.  I am not guilty of that, are you?

Give them a fair reading and then form an opinion.  Until that is done, we remain hypocrites, no better than those who call us "bigots" and "fomenters of hate."

Just a sample from the FAQ page of godhatesfags: http://www.godhatesfags.com/faq/ 

========================

What would you do if a homosexual attended your church?

Regardless of any person's private conduct, we would do unto them as we would have them do unto us. By a fear of God, we would declare the whole counsel of God to them, lest their blood should be on our hands. We would share the Gospel (good news) with them, and we would treat them like we would treat any other person on this earth. We would treat them with kindness, and follow those scriptural injunctions that require that we preach the gospel to every creature.

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15.

"So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also." Romans 1:15.

"Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel." Romans 15:20.

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." I Corinthians 1:17.

"For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!" I Corinthians 9:16.

There are many more such passages. Knowing always that it is only by the foolishness of preaching that any man is saved, preaching a pure, complete, unvarnished gospel, is our duty, and it is the only hope for salvation. See Galatians 1:9 - "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." and Romans 10:17 - "So, then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

--------

How do you feel about people who confess and realize their sins?

Repentance is a gift of God (Romans 2:4). God communicates that repentance and the fruits of it are manifest to all (Acts 26:20) and "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29). Once saved, always saved. Based upon 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, there is a scriptural basis to believe that it is possible for a practicing fag to repent. On the other hand, Jesus Christ taught that "no man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him." (John 6:44). In Romans 1, on three separate occasions, it says that God has given homosexuals up to uncleanness (v. 24), vile affections (v.26) , and to a reprobate mind (v. 28). If he has given them up to these things, he is not simultaneously drawing them to Christ. These verses are not incongruous, because if Christ died for them, the Holy Spirit will surely call them, God will in fact draw them, they will leave off that uncleanness, vile affections and reprobate mind, and the inevitable result will be that they will inherit heaven and not hell. Therefore, a fag who has truly repented is no longer a fag. We are not going to be left wondering about it, in light of the objective test which the Bible describes, including at II Timothy 2:19: "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

----------

Do you feel that gays and lesbians should be allowed to teach if they do not bring their sexual tendencies into the classroom?

No one would know, and therefore no one would care, about the sexual practices or pleasures of any such human unless they put it on the table. School is not a place for a teacher or any other tax-paid adult to be discussing, directly or indirectly, their sexual "preferences" or those of any other person. If such a person could and would go about their business in a professional, mature and responsible manner it would never be a problem with their conduct. My experience however, with persons who are homosexual is that, just like their scriptural models, they feel compelled to "share" their perversion with any and everybody surrounding them. They do this with a certain degree of misplaced pride and an apparent compulsion to insist on others' approval. When that happens to any least degree in a school setting, it is grossly improper and should be removed from the environment. Any such person engaging in that behavior is not a suitable teacher in any school.

===================

After you honestly read just these three examples above, can you honestly say that the opinion you have formed can easily accommodate these statements.  Or, are you thinking what I thought, "these statements don't jive with the opinion I have formed."  "Something is not right."   "Let me examine this with a little more integrity and depth."  "Let me read what they have to say about themselves."

Before we are so quick to cast the stones that have been unfairly cast at us, let us first let WBC speak for themselves.  Then, any opinion formed can be considered a fair and just one.  I did, and my opinion changed.  WBC's ministry is bizarre, offensive, and shocking, BUT, it is motivated by their faithful reading (Calvinistic) of Scripture and NOT hate.  I wrote Rev. Phelps and WBC and apologized for this unfair treatment by me and my evangelical brothers in Christ.

Again, I am not a supporter of WBC, but I will no longer cast the stones of contempt prior to investigation at their ministry. I disagree with the form their ministry takes and am more Wesleyan in my view of Scripture, BUT, I am convinced from their writings as it explains their actions, that they are motivated by obedience to their view of Scripture, which is faith, and not hate.

If you do not take the time to read their "theology" of ministry, then, you cannot in good conscience form an opinion of their ministry without being guilty of the same sins of those who call us "hateful bigots."  I will not do that or act upon the same.  I pray you, a man whose ministry I support and admire, will prayerfully consider my counsel and form a fair and just opinion in this matter.

Love in Christ,

John OSMA<><
Rev. John Warrener, MDiv., MBA
Palmyra Road United Methodist Church
1600 Palmyra Road
Albany, GA  31701
jwarrene@ucmpage.org

Unofficial Confessing Movement Page
http://ucmpage.org
><>

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