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Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use "Clergy Forum" To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois


From: godrilla@accessus.net
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 10:33 PM
Subject: Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use Clergy Forum To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois

FROM REV. KENT L. SVENDSEN

It should be noted that I did not give the title to the article nor did I personally post it to this site. But since it was made public I will comment since I have been accused of all sorts of things in response to its being posted...[Read Commentary at Drawing The Line Against Apostacy]


From: E R Matson
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:51 PM
Subject: Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use "Clergy Forum" To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois

For those who want really to "fire up" their people should enjoy a new, highly readable Eusebius, The Church History, recently translated by Dr. Paul L. Maier, Distinguished Professor of Ancient History at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo. Maier's running commentary in footnotes alone is worth the price of this book, and his selection of photos is stunning. Eusebius enumerates every wayward notion that hit Christianity during its infancy, and calculates for us the human cost paid for "Orthodoxy." It was a heavy price. This translation highlights for today the magnificent heroism of early believers that has long hidden behind the impenetrable English of earlier translations. Dr. Maier has made Eusebius nearly as readable as a modern news magazine.

Eusebius has some very choice words concerning the source materials used by Westar's Jesus Seminar -- It is no secret that he did not think very highly of those works. In fact, in my view, Eusebius is an antidote to the Jesus Seminar.

In Christ,

Bob Matson


From: Frank.Ward Frank.Ward@yellowcorp.com
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:44 AM
Subject: Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use Clergy Forum To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois

What an interesting conference. So many loaded and misleading questions, so little time.rolleyes.gif (1784 bytes) The one that struck me most on first reading was number 2 in the "Doctrines" section: "2. Can believers who cannot accept the literal doctrines of original sin, obedience/judgment, heaven/hell, a devil, atonement, the birth narrative, the transfiguration, resurrection, ascension, afterlife, the 2nd coming and final judgment still be spiritually nourished in the Christian Church? If so, how?" My question is, In what sense can these "believers" be termed believers? Wouldn't more proper terms be agnostic, atheist, materialist, skeptic, seminary professor, etc. Of course the answer to question 2 is obvious: Any unbeliever can be "spiritually nourished " in a truly Christian Church by receiving the Bread of Life and becoming a believer. I have a funny feeling that they won't even come close to such an answer, but will come down with Borg and Spong et. al.

"He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." (PS 4:4)

Just my $0.02.

Yours in Christ

Frank Ward
fward@idir.net


From: DAWN CHESSER
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org 
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 11:38 PM
Subject: Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use Clergy Forum To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois

My Friends and Colleagues at UCMPage:

As the Associate Pastor of the church where the Clergy Forum is being held, I can assure you that this event was completely lay-conceived and lay-led. I have supported the individuals who became so inspired and stimulated about their faith that they wanted to share it with others, and certainly have steered them towards reading some books which have driven them to the point that they are so excited about sharing the good news of Jesus Christ that they have organized to bring about not only the Clergy Forum, but a number of other educational events in the coming year, including a JSOR event in February, which will feature Steve Patterson, author of "The God of Jesus", and will host a seminar by Marcus Borg in the fall of 2001. The Clergy Forum is not being promoted as a debate, but rather as a discussion between fairly like-minded individuals, in order to present a thoughtful, deeply theological and spiritual program as an alternative to other more ordinary, widely-known, "orthodox" -inspired (although I'd love to argue this point with someone who might be so inclined) positions on Christianity and United Methodism. The questions were things that these laypeople wanted to ask clergy to wrestle with openly, honestly, and thoughtfully as a method of teaching and inspiring them to think and learn more. They consider clergy to be have been educated in ways which they have not, and are simply eager to hear from these "experts" on the subject of Christianity what they truly believe and think, and how they have worked difficult theological concepts out in their minds. These laypeople are, in the great tradition of our Wesleyan Heritage, "on fire" with the passion of wanting to learn and wanting others to learn about Jesus Christ and his witness to the world. I am very proud to be associated with such amazing, brilliant, creative, thoughtful, impassioned Christians as we have in the Downers Grove church, and would invite anyone who believes us to be otherwise to come and worship with us, as well as join us for the "Clergy Forum" on (appropriately, I think), Reformation Sunday, October 29th, from 4-8 p.m. There will be some opportunity for audience questions during the discussions, as well as time to visit personally with our panelists during dinner and fellowship time.

Resting in Christ's peace and the grace of God,

Dawn Chesser
Associate Pastor
First United Methodist Church of Downers Grove
pdchesser@msn.com


From: Revwilly@aol.com
To: ucmpage@ucmpage.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:51 PM
Subject: Pro-homosexuality Conference Leaders Use Clergy Forum To Promote Doctrines Contrary To UM Teachings in N. Illinois

The questions contain the answers at which the panel will arrive. For example:.

" Is the Bible the inerrant word of God or is it of human creation? Can the gospels be viewed as containing a combination of voices - Jesus, the early Christian community and the authors? Specifically, are some statements attributed to Jesus made by the latter two voices and inserted after Jesus' death?"

And the answer is, "The gospels can be view as containing a combination of voices...."

Do the organizers of this even think people are really that stupid?

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