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Conservative and Liberal Exchange Barbs Over UM Promotion Of Anti-Christian, Pagan Scholar

-----Original Message-----
From: The Original RAMTIN ramtin@hotmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:01 AM
To: jwarrene@ucmpage.org
Subject: RE: Borg to lecture in Desert Southwest Conference

Here is a copy of an exchange I've had with a pastor in the Desert Southwest Conference with regard to the appearance of marcus borg...first, I wrote. Then he responded. Then I responded in turn. If you're interested, I'll keep you posted, should there be further developments.

Martin Wesley Corie

 -----Original Message-----
 From: The Original RAMTIN ramtin@hotmail.com 
 Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 8:57 PM
 To: info@viadecristo.com 
 Subject: Borg to lecture in Desert Southwest Conference 

To whom it may concern...let the one who has ears, hear!

To the leadership of the Desert Southwest Conference, regarding the scheduled appearance of Marcus Borg of the Jesus Seminar, so called.

"Over the last thirty years, an older way of seeing Christianity has become unpersuasive to millions of people. These lectures describe a way of seeing Christianity again that is faithful [?] to the tradition even as it takes seriously who we have become at the beginning of a new century."

The quote is from one of your publications regarding the coming of Marcus Borg to speak in your area. The sad fact is, the kind of "Christianity" espoused and propagated by the likes of Borg and the bulk of UM pastors, theologians, etc. is VERY UNPERSUASIVE indeed. There is NO power in a "gospel" that denies the divinity of Jesus, the truth of the ancient credo: "JESUS CHRIST IS LORD", the virgin birth of Jesus, His sinless life, His atoning sacrificial death on the cross, His literal, physical resurrection from the dead, and His imminent return. Why anyone would want to hear the hollow echo of bones drumming on white-washed tombs is beyond the comprehension of the godly mind. Look around you, across the dry, gospel-starved wilderness of Methodism...what do you see? The blind leading the blind, the dead burying the dead. Where is life? Where is a future? Life is in Jesus Christ--the Way, the Truth and the LIFE! The future is in Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday, today and forever...about whom alone it is true because He is the great "I AM!"

Before you infest other mislead and misleaders with the poison of "a [new borgian] way of seeing Christianity" you might consider humbling yourselves before God, seeking His face, turning from your wicked lies and those who live and propagate them, and PRAY that God will hear from heaven and heal your dying denomination in the Name that is above every Name--JESUS CHRIST! This is and shall be my prayer for you all.


 Martin W. Corie
 Former U.M. Elder (now delivered, praise God!)

 Martin, Martin, Martin,

I would thank you for your unsolicited tome, but I don't want to do anything to encourage you in your zealotry. I'm alarmed at what mental state you must be in that you feel you can write uninvited letters threatening your fellow Christians and think it's going to persuade them to come around to your way of thinking. I'm amazed at your pompous decrees and really can't believe I've even taken this short amount of time to respond to you, knowing full well that nothing I ever say will make a difference to someone as full of anger as you apparently are.

I'm mainly sad for you and the narrow-mindedness you express in the name of Christ. Knowing how uncomfortable you must have been in a such a theologically diverse setting, I'm relieved for you to have been "delivered" from the United Methodist church. The thinking and seeking people who continue to discover United Methodism and who revel in being free from the kind of arrogance (masquerading as humility) that you espouse are relieved, as well.

I'm attaching an order form for you to order tapes of Borg's lectures on the off-chance that you'd actually like to hear what the man says before denouncing him so vehemently. Otherwise, you can just use his picture on the order form to throw darts at.

I'm praying that in the midst of your anger, God's peace and grace may break through. I am (as much as you hate to think about it),

Your brother in Christ,
 Rev. David M. Felten, Pastor
 Via de Cristo United Methodist
 9260 E. Desert Camp Drive
 Scottsdale, AZ. 85255
 voice: 480.515.4490

mr. felten (x4)

I'm fairly certain the original David did not solicit the services of Nathan, either; nevertheless...thou art the [person] since you accepted the role of "to whom it may concern," as I directed my "tome."

1. You are alarmed at my "mental state." Do I presume that you are a psychic psychologist since from a distance, without knowing me, you can assess my mental state? Maybe you should get some tarot cards and a toll free phone line...

2. Perhaps MY mental state is not so much in question as is yours if, as in classical paranoia, you perceive my letter as "threatening." I challenge you to quote to me a threat from my words.

3. As to whether I was "trying to persuade" anyone with my letter, perhaps you have misjudged my intentions altogether. I was simply stating the facts, articulating TRUTH, as I perceive it. Do with it what you will.

4. You call them "pompous decrees." (Were you, by chance, a drama major or a long lost twin of James Carville?) I was expressing classical, traditional CHRISTIAN theological positions, long held by millions of believers, since the resurrection.

5. You judged me to be "full of anger"...again, you did not read this in my letter, so I'm guessing you have some other way of knowing me? What you call "anger" might rather be an opposing point of view from yours...why does that make me angry and you perfectly calm and at ease? Would you concede that perhaps I am the one at ease...and you are the madman? Of course, in the common language of your denominational ilk, anything that speaks of TRUTH with PASSION is considered "anger." Get a life!

6. You are "sad" for my "narrow-mindedness?" Agreed: you may or may not be sad, as for me, I am definitely NARROW-MINDED! Guilty as charged...I'm so narrow-minded, I am absolutely convinced that JESUS CHRIST is LORD, He is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life, and NO ONE will come to the FATHER except through HIM. HE is the absolute, perfect, one-and-only begotten SON of God, fully human and fully divine...very God of very God...I KNOW beyond a doubt that no other Name has been given under heaven by which we MUST be saved, except for the name of JESUS! You bet, I'm narrow-minded...and it is my firm conviction that I will stand in the presence of Christ Jesus, my Lord, my King, and my JUDGE, with my narrow-mind and honor Him in THAT DAY, as I endeavor to do today and everyday until then. And I am glad to declare that this same narrow-mind that I possess was, I believe, shared by the likes of John Wesley, Simon Peter, and the Apostle Paul.

7. "Theologically diverse" is the character of the setting you ascribe to the Methodist church. The same can be said for a meeting of the United Nations...I don't discern much difference in the two. Both seek to propagandize about a lot of good works, but neither places much value on TRUTH as revealed in Jesus Christ!

8. Yes, "delivered"...as in set free to be all that God has called me to be, without genuflecting to corrupt human systems and bureaucrats.

9. God help the "thinking and seeking" folks who go anywhere near the kind of "gospel" distributed by the borgs and others who follow after him with their itching ears. (Do you fit in this number, david?)

10. You need not have wasted the time and effort to attach the order blank for borgs tapes...we have farms and ranches in the area where I can go to hear jackasses bray without cost. As for the idea of me using his picture as a target for darts, again, you are ascribing to me motives and desires that you are not qualified to do. I do not see marcus borg, nor you, sir, as my enemy. I have one enemy. And I see that he has seduced you and so many others with his lies. I can, and will, pray that you too will be delivered, brought by the mercy of God to TRUTH before it is too late. I pray that your precious baby child and those of your congregation, are able to hear TRUTH, no matter what you say to them. God has that power, yes, to work GOOD in all circumstances, even yours.

May I offer some friendly advice...as a pastor, you would do well not to be so quick to enter into personal attacks with those who differ with your opinion. The issues are far greater that you or me, or you and the person with whom you disagree. I addressed a message of grave concern to an entity, namely the Desert Southwest Conference of the uMC. I did not select you as the recipient...your very un-pastoral response is reason for more concern that you have felt for my "zealotry." I pray you tend the "sheep" with more compassion that you demonstrated in your response to me. Perhaps a good, prayerful read of Ezekiel 34 might be in order, if you dare to be a shepherd in the order of the GOOD SHEPHERD!

By the way, I fully intend to share the content of my original letter, and your response, along with my response, with others who will be interested to know the spirit and sentiment of your heart, and by association and representation, your conference and denomination.

Have a nice day...and a joyous eternity!

Martin W. Corie
(Still alive and well in Jesus Christ, the Resurrected One!)

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